Being an old horse trader, I am all too aware of the incredible advantages this edge provides. Sometimes a deal can make 20 times the investment. A 20 bagger; not too shabby. That’s like turning $1,000 into $20,000 and within a few days too. I have done it throughout my life and am always on the lookout for more deals. It is a never ending game.

As I have said before, a precious metal owner in a collapsed economy without the knowledge to deal intelligently would be like a lottery winner who blew it all and ended up worse off than before. You have probably read of this happening often.

A section on horse trading and bartering would be unique on the internet; maybe a strong pulling factor for new readers. Also this section wouldn’t have all the harsh criticism that I see too often with other subjects. We who have been on the GIM forum have absorbed about all the precious metal knowledge by now and the next logical step is to learn what to do when this wealth needs to be employed in as effective manner as possible. I wrote about this in my silver musings, think 10 times, think 100 times and think 1,000 times. The last one got some criticism as I may have seemed to go overboard but I stand by what I have written. After all, how should we price precious metals against unbacked paper dollars ? And how bad would a monetary collapse be ? And how should we value precious metals in such a collapse ? This will be part of the horse trading and bartering section also.

Oscar Wilde said “The cynic knows the price of everything and the value of nothing”. We all need to lose our cynicism and open our minds to the possibilities out there in order to benefit.

My desire is to change lives for the better. It is one of the most satisfying things I have done. What could I offer to others on the GIM forum that could change their lives more dramatically than to learn that there is a way out of the financial situation they have erroneously accepted ? Bartering and horse trading adds a whole new set of powerful tools that increase purchasing power.

I suspect that others who aren’t aware are rejecting this because they see it as risky and unfamiliar. The risk is in not taking the “risk” in the first place, for it is actually an intelligently taken investment with the odds of success weighed tremendously on their side. And the uncertainty would be overcome by their reading about others’ successes here on the GIM forum. Understand that it ain’t braggin’ if it’s true.

Of course, the ultimate motivation is for readers to invest into the precious metals with their new gains. People can’t invest further if they have little to no free capital to invest. There is money laying all over America; the eyes only need to be opened. And to those who say they don’t have money to start, I say that is NO EXCUSE. They can start with practically nothing and I have done it many times, pyramiding into a fortune. And I will be only too happy to show them how to get started.

RiverRat, Ponce (wish we could get him back) and I, and I’m sure many others here, have a tremendous number of experiences that can show what is possible and to help those willing to give it a try. There are several rules when horse trading and bartering and they need to be discussed as well as laid out clearly so that newbies may confidently transact their first deals.

The success of these first deals are most important for two reasons; first that they will be encouraged to continue and second that they will be soon working with OPM (as in OTHER PEOPLES’ MONEY). After that, all deals whether small or large profit will become part of their journey to greater wealth and freedom.

I feel that I have so much to share that this vitally needs to be begun as soon as possible. I will post as often as I can as I have opened a new business and am so busy (maybe business should be spelled busyness. In my case, busymess) at the present. I am often up at 3:00 A.M. and can write without interruptions. I just put a roast in the crock pot with all the fixins. And my sons are buzzing around now. And I have to get dressed for work.

I have started this thread in the Gold Silver - Precious metal section because posts disappear onto page two slower there and as I stated, the purpose is to get more dollars to invest into real money, aka gold and silver. I’ll probably even rag on about the virtues of acquiring sterling silver. I have been buying it since 1999 and paid as little as $2.50 per ounce then; again, not too shabby.


Best wishes,

Agnut

P.S. Thank you Skyvike for the encouragement for getting me off my dead butt. I started writing this as an answer to your post on my “A Funny Thing Happened On The Way To The GIM Forum” article but felt compelled that there is no better time to begin what has been gnawing at me than now. As in RIGHT NOW !

And finally, to the relief of many, this horse trading and bartering will not include religion or politics. It is intended strictly as educational.

The older I get, the more I know I don’t know. So I will also be learning right along with everyone else.

Agnut,

Your avid desire to share your knowledge with other members is extremely magnanimous. You and other like-minded posters are what makes this forum so great!

Well agnut, as you have broken the ice, let me throw in my two cents.

As I have mentioned to you before, my father has always been a wheeler dealer and continues to this day. His three offspring (me included) have followed in his footsteps, albeit in different industries. Opportunities abound if you are willing to put a little effort and time into them. And just because you may have a "day job", does not mean that you can not have a sideline or two in the works.

I get a pay check but I also have a few deals floating around at anytime. Only two rules apply, as far as I am concerned. 1. You should have a good idea as to the value of something and a possible avenue to move it. 2. You make money when you buy, not when you sell. If you can follow those rules, you will always do well.

__________________

"...The older I get, the more I know I don’t know..." = ultimate wisdom.

Troy tons of thanks and appreciation from grandma and I for your willingness to share your trading knowledge and experience Agnut.

Kudos!

__________________
goldminer

Thanks Mined Games. Love your internet name. Precious metals are a heady/heavy trip.

So many thoughts are flooding in that I don’t know where to start. The beginning makes sense.

Whether a deal is small and needs only a dollar to invest or $10,000, the principles are pretty much the same. And as a business associate told me many years ago, making a small deal can take the same time as a huge deal. I have experienced this and had not paid attention to how insightful this was until I realized that our time is an important part of the equation. As the comedian Steven Wright said, “Anywhere is within walking distance if you have got the time”. We spend time, we waste time, we bide our time, etc. I have a cartoon by Gary Larson over my computer that shows Einstein at a blackboard filled with an equation that ends with =$. And the caption says, “Einstein discovers that time is actually money.” By the way, I recommend that everybody should go out and get the Gary Larson cartoon books. They are hilarious and good to take a break with when we get too serious. Abe books has them as well as Ebay used of course. And cheap, of course.

Anyhow, how much time it takes a deal to complete is often overlooked. For instance, buying and selling real estate can take months until you have the investment back as well as the hoped for profit in you hot little hands. And these months can either work for you or against you. Say real estate is booming and you end up with a profit much larger than you had anticipated. Well and good. But that doesn’t mean that you will be as fortunate the next time. On the other hand, what if real estate drops before you have a buyer ? Three dangers here; first is a buyer backing out since prices are falling, second is ongoing mortgage and other expenses, and third is that usually a piece of real estate is bought on a thin margin. So it doesn’t take much percentage drop in price to wipe out your initial investment. And you can into serious trouble here, not unlike a stock speculator who buys on margin. We all have read about some wiped out speculator who went postal on his stock brokerage, haven’t we ? There is no sense getting greedy and buying anything on margin. That is why I stay away from real estate deals.

The rule here is to buy fully paid for items. You don’t have to borrow any money to get started. We will discuss in detail some of the items that may be good as we go along.

The type of deals I like are completed in a short period of time. Actually, I have done deals that the buyer was waiting before I had the goods. Beginning and ending in a few hours. Sweet, clean and profitable.

And this is right up your alley Mined Games. I have started with as little as a few dollars (and I mean a few like $3) and pyramided it into a considerable sum in a matter of months. It has been treated as a game to see how much I could make from as little an initial investment as possible. This could go on as long as you wished and shows how seemingly uneducated people can become wealthy. Higher education isn’t necessary in becoming your own success story. In fact, it is often a hindrance since an uneducated person doesn’t have the laurels to sit on. There are millions who thought going through the education gauntlet was the way to prosperity only to discover that there was no demand for what they majored in. Anyone with a dream to become financially free can do it.

You are only as dumb as you allow yourself to believe. Get over it ! A “can do” attitude is most important.

Look, I even make money when I didn’t intend to. Sounds crazy ? You betcha. I bought a painting for $75 on Ebay and it hung around the house for a while until I decided that I would like my money back and maybe a little profit. I must add that I RARELY BUY ANYTHING OF CONSEQUENCE UNLESS I CAN SELL IT FOR MORE. That is an important rule for life. I put it in capitals so that it will sink in as it is so wasteful to think otherwise. I put this painting back on Ebay and a bidding frenzy ensued. I got $510 for it. And I know almost nothing about art except that I know what I like. I don’t recommend this for everybody but it goes to show that a mind set that acts in this manner does not often lose. And when shopping, I use coupons liberally and stock up on sale items. They must just love me at the local market; in fact, they changed their policy of having Freschetta pepperoni pizzas (my favorite) to limit my buying more than 4 at a time. I’m not cheesy enough to go in on another day to take advantage but the thought has crossed my mind. You see, any expenditures are treated like the deals I make. It has become a life style. And I couldn’t be happier.

Always remember when you are buying things that you need for day to day living that you are using after tax dollars. So a basket of groceries that costs $100 actually cost you about $130 that came from your labors. The government hasn’t yet figured out how to close the loophole on bargain hunters but they are trying.

An old axiom of car dealers is that you can’t buy a car too cheap. Another is that you don’t make your money selling a car but buying that car. Because no matter what you sell it for, if you paid too much, you will not profit as well.

Learn to turn down some items that aren’t a steal unless you have a buyer waiting or you know that you have a waiting market. However, a lower profit return is acceptable under these circumstances if you have the time. Most deals will be of the type that they shout to you that they are a screaming bargain and you have no buyer in mind. An example is the computer desk on which I am abusing the keyboard. I was at a garage sale and the seller had a fancy 10 piece computer unit. It takes up half my wall space. It was $2100 new and in excellent condition. I bought it for $100 and the seller even threw in a chair that was still in the box. The price on the box was $89. And he even delivered it all and set it up for free !

I know my examples sound crazy but you will never get to experience such deals unless you get out there and beat the bushes. I will have mucho to say about this as I go deeper into the details. Garage sales are a great place to start the journey. And you meet some wonderful people along the way.

As you are learning, you will be better preparing yourself for when things get tight. And I believe that they will can get tight anytime without warning. The rapidly changing economy dictates that you complete a deal in as little time as possible. Nobody knows when the banks will go on “holiday” or other problems may occur.

Another rule is keep the things you have unless they can be happily replaced at a lower price. For example, I had an expensive record turntable that I bought years ago for $200. I bought another turntable on Ebay for $150 and had it working before I sold my old turntable, also on Ebay. I got $1050. So I pocketed $900 and can still enjoy my record collection. By the way, I consider vinyl records a great bargain. I have bought many at garage sales and thrift stores for as little as 5 cents. The other day I went nuts and paid the outrageous price of $2 each for some old jazz records. They are catalogued at about $40 and Ebay sells them at a little over $20. The same happened with some new French silk Hermes ties that I bought for $2 each at a garage sale. These new ones run from $100 to $130 each on Ebay. I will be happy to get $20 each but will accept more. No duh.

See, you have to get out there and root among what bargains are offered. Ebay offers some real bargains but you have to be experienced with what is offered. It is a great place to sell but your local area holds many treasures, more than you can find in a lifetime.

I am still looking for estate sales where I can buy either a group of items as a package or the whole estate. I have my eye on a 2,000 square foot warehouse space that is only $400 per month. Some items may be bulky enough that I will need to hold them until they are sold.

Gotta go to the shop for a bit; I am working the phone and internet for tools and parts today.

Best wishes,

agnut

Agnut I love your stuff. Keep it coming.

If my wife read that, she would have swore that I wrote it. It all goes back to "you make it when you buy, not when you sell". I am a firm believer of finding the best you can and buying it as reasonably as possible.

Grocery stores are a great opportunity to put this into practice. Grocery stores in this area seem to run specials on about a 3 month cycle, outside of seasonal items. Seasonal items are great too. After Christmas I put a couple large spiral sliced hams and a few turkeys in the freezer for half price.

Anyway, they put out weekly flyers, but it seems that they only come out with the big deals once or maybe twice a month. 2 for one chickens, $1.99 pork tenderloins, $3.99 T-bones etc... Those to me are opportunities, especially with 4 kids to feed. Firstly, a deep freeze is a necessity (the last 3 houses I bought I had them thrown in the deal). Then, when those deals come around, buy 3 months worth. By the time I am getting low, the sale seems to come around again :-). Now I see some of you saying, that is a heck of a lot of money, but it is not. Think of it this way, it only costs you to do it the first time. For the next 3 months, I do not have to buy any. All that I do is work through it and rotate. Once you get in the cycle, it costs no more than buying normal groceries. And on top of that, all we eat is first quality tenderloins, NY strips, T-bones etc... The 3 racks of baby back ribs we ate tonight cost me less than $15 or about the cost of an entree at Applebees.

Don't look at deals as a sacrifice. It is a game. The better you get at it, the better it can be for you and your family.

__________________

this is a GREAT thread. Thanks very much. This is most inspiring.

Hi fasTTcar, I remember your mentioning your wheeler dealer father a while back. I wish that every father could give that skill to his children like your father has passed on to you. But sadly for them and fortunately for us, it doesn’t often happen and so there are deals out there begging to be had.

Just like the silver story, few know of bartering and horse trading’s potential for wealth creation. If tomorrow everyone was watching CNBC and a respected financial advisor came on and told the viewers that silver could soon go to $100 or beyond, there would be a mad rush to the coin stores. Haven’t you noticed the absence of such precious metals commentators ? And for years it has been this way. Remember when Johnny Carson mentioned about a shortage of toilet paper and the next day there was a stampede in the markets ? Can you imagine what would happen when there is a shortage of silver ? Personally, I would rather be watching it at home on the boob tube than in a long line hoping to get what I could at what the seller demands.

You see, part of this horse trading and bartering is on a one to one basis. I am cautious when bidding on Ebay since there may be other bidders in the wings who place their bid in the last few seconds of a 7 day auction. It is called slamming. Nothing wrong with it and it has become common practice. I do it myself; why show my cards too early ? I sometimes come up against other slammers and am outbid. That is okay since I have a set price limit I am willing to pay. I write this down with other information well before the auction ends. It is called doing my homework. There are these bidders who go into a bidding war and if I am the seller, all the better. But as a buyer, I step aside and let them have their way. I still have my money and the last time I checked, money buys almost everything while things only buy money or can be bartered. That probably explains why used items can sell for so little.

My two sons are learning the art of horse trading and bartering and the value of things. I am so proud of them. The younger one goes with me to garage sales and hardly buys anything but what he buys he practically steals. The other day he got a winter jacket made by Eddie Bauer for $2; it looked new. He also got some Xbox games for $5 each. At the stores they are $55 plus tax. When he spends money, he tortures it. My only fear is that he will not buy things because they cost money. Shylock comes to mind. I better not borrow any money from him; he charges his older brother interest !

The best garage sales I have attended were in middle to upper middle class neighborhoods. The items are of better quality and condition and the price is often far below what it should sell for in another garage sale or swap meet.

I have also bought out defunct companies’ inventory and equipment. One time I got over 20 times what I paid and another over 30 times. However, this isn’t necessarily for the first time buyer. Depends how deep you can afford to jump into the water. I must admit that in the first case I paid $1100 and in the second case I paid $100. So it could be doable for anyone with this amount of free cash to negotiate similar deals.

Good point about having a day job AND doing deals on the side. I am not advocating anyone to quit their day job unless they are experienced enough and making so much money that their day job is interfering with their side deals. I have actually seen this happen and this is probably how some small businesses are started.

I went to government surplus auctions a couple of times and there were many new luxury cars parked outside. That should have been the first clue. The bidders were old timers and had the resources to outbid a newcomer if necessary. They didn’t want some greenhorn muscling in on their territory. And besides, the profit return was not what I was looking for. There was a bidder there that only bought pallets of bearings of all kinds. There was also a bidder there that bought used medical equipment, refurbished it and shipped it to Mexico. I understand that he made quite a good living at that. Again, you won’t learn of these possibilities if you don’t go out there and rub shoulders with these entrepreneurs.

Your two rules are foundational but there are some more that you probably assume since you are an experienced buyer. I am writing from the viewpoint that the reader knows nothing about horse trading and bartering. One rule could be that you never cheat anyone. If there is a box of junk jewelry and in that box is a diamond ring worth a bundle, I would point it out to the seller. It may be an old lady that is unaware of what she is selling. You might even buy it from her if the price is right. But to be honest with a seller cannot be measured in dollars. If not it will come back on you. It is a sort of “my karma ran over your dogma” thing.

However if you are at an auction and see something in a mixed box that you think is valuable, feel free to bid what your want. I just don’t want any readers thinking I condone taking advantage of some old lady.

Buying perceived bargains is an honorable way to make money. It is your specialized knowledge of what the item is worth that makes this possible. As I gave examples above of those who choose to specialize in one type of item, it gives one a narrow but deep understanding of what he is bidding on. I specialize on car parts and cars and some art and a specific type of antique Italian jewelry. And sterling silver but that is more of a diversification away from silver bullion. I also get the sterling at a considerable discount from the silver content. I don’t expect readers to agree but it is just something I appreciate, the incredible workmanship of old sterling pieces. I may be able to sell some of my sterling at a considerable premium to its metal content but for now I am biding my time. I will also buy almost anything that looks like a screaming bargain. I bought a first edition set of the four Dune books for $1.50. I thought they were good to have and will probably sell them when time permits.

Another rule is that everything I have is for sale if the price is right. There will always be other bargains coming because I am always looking.

Another rule is to not deal with “scared money”. For example if I bought a car with all my money and knew that it was worth far more, I have put myself in a position to not be able to make other good buys until that car sold. It is important to not be anxious to complete a sale. Desperation breeds poor profits.
I don’t mean to make it sound as though Ebay is the only place to sell your items. There is also the newspaper, Craigslist (internet), auction houses, consignments and waiting buyers. It is that Ebay goes out to millions of potential buyers worldwide and can often get the seller a much higher price than a local market will pay. I was told recently that cars sell on Ebay higher than putting the car in the local paper.

Another rule is new is new but used is often much better than new. Pride in buying only new items can be an expensive mistake. I see nothing wrong in buying a barely used $400 snowboard for $50. Or a Jaguar XJ6 that is in good condition for $1000. New ones are about $50K. But I am a mechanic and if you don’t have the ability to service it, stay away unless you can readily sell it for double or more. There are a lot of other car types that can be easier to deal with. And used cars can be a very profitable sideline.

RiverRat told me of a seller on Ebay that sold a 396 Chevy motor for $3000. Some specialty car parts are worth a bundle. And as you said fasTTcar, you should know what it is worth as well as have an avenue to sell it. Some old high performance parts are selling for huge prices right now but in a collapsed economy they may not. That is another reason to sell as soon as possible.

There is a rate of flow of your items and that will depend upon how much effort you want to expend in making money. Once learned, this horse trading and bartering will last a lifetime. I could never go back to just working a 9 to 5 job, hoping that I could survive what is coming. For it will be a great time of opportunity for those with the tools to extract the wealth.

Ponce turned me on to a little book that has been most interesting. It is called The Richest Man In Babylon. Another good book is The Millionaire Next Door by Thomas Stanley. You might find it surprising how he lives. It is available from $3.95 from Amazon books. Used of course.

I think that the best hobby is collecting dollar bills of all denominations. I collect these dollars and trade them for things of enduring value.

I welcome any questions as this is a quest for profits and how can anyone profit if they don’t ask questions ? And you readers, don’t hesitate to continue with sharing your experiences here. I’m an amateur myself and need all the help I can get.

Best wishes,

agnut

Next I should write about how to start with almost nothing and build it into a bundle. This is a fun game and can be a source of pride in accomplishing something new. Something that you can pass on to your children that school would never teach them.

hi, when a person sells on e-bay, can't the irs tax them? same goes for horse trading and bartering. or are there minimums?

The IRS taxes income. This includes capital gains, which is profit you make when you sell something - if you make a profit. Capital gains should be offset with capital losses - if you sell something at a loss. Of course, who knows what you sold or what you paid for it in the first place.

You better know what you paid and have proof of the purchase price. If you are going to play the game you need to be straight. If your intent is to go underground then don't sweat it. That is not a road I am willing to travel at this point.

The millionaire next door is required reading IMHO. It is a statistics based review of who the real millionaires of the world are. They have never spent over $400 on a suit or $200 on a pair of shoes. They are the local drycleaner, farmer and all an all unflashy guy next door. It really hit home with me when I read it years ago, as all the people who I know have money are that way. You are parked next to their beat up old van at the WalMart. They are not driving the 750 BMW.

He also did a follow up book, the Millionaire mind, which I did not find near as interesting, but it is not a bad read.

__________________

:D The boy is on a roll....Bravo Ag



Want a quick piece of advice to live by ?

Never invest time,money or effort into anything you can't eat,drink or make money on.

That instantly trashes 90% of all hobbies and recreational activities in one slam.

A few examples:

I took up wine making as a business venture because I love wine and got tired of paying inflated prices...not because it's an enjoyable hobby.Sold 500 bottles in the last six months...expect to do more when and if I decide to expand my equipment.

When dressed catfish fillets hit $4.00 a pound I bought a commercial fishing license and ran trot lines on local rivers in the summer months...average haul 400 lbs a week.

Bought a POS dirt bike and ripped it apart and rebuilt it for resale.
Made 200% profit.
Started buying junk bikes and rebuilding them for resale...riding them was a blast...but only if you make enough money at it to ride and own one for free.

I tend to look at sports as money makers...not recreation.
I own a half dozen whitewater kayaks...I love water sports.
Every piece of equipment I own was bartered or bought from proceeds of wheeling and dealing used water sports equipment...I buy low...sell high.
If it starts costing me money...I will drop it...cut my losses and find another money maker that I enjoy as a sport.

My wife is an avid mountain bike rider...I hate the sport...but again...I wheeled and dealed road bikes and mountain bikes as a business to get her a half dozen top of the line Cannondales and Specialized for a grand total investment of zero.

I look at everything as a business venture...that's just my mentality.

It's all about attitude and brains...you can whine or you can get smart and quit wasting your time with zero financial return undertakings.

But I love to watch football RiverRat !! ...yeah cool ...I don't.
If I watched football I would become an expert on sports betting and have money riding on every game...that's active participation...not a passive waste of my time.

You got to think extreme to break yourself of nasty status quo habits TPTB want you to engage in...become proactive and quit trying to run with the flow...damn the flow....I want to own the flow and make money selling it to somebody else.

Look around you...do you want to live a life reacting to pressure and problems or become the meanest SOB in the valley and let everybody else worry about what you'll do next ?

The choice is yours...life is short...it's time to stop living like a cornered rat on slave labor wages.

:D :D :D :D

Attitude folks...the final frontier...TPTB have a death grip on it.
Chisel yourself off a small piece and try it on for size...

Turn off the damn TV and THINK !!

__________________
Best to all,

RiverRat

"the happily ever after fails and we've been poisoned by these fairy tales" : Don Henley

"If you look closely you'll find that we're mostly machines looking for a soul" : Bad Company

The word 'politics' is derived from the word 'poly', meaning 'many', and the word 'ticks', meaning 'blood sucking parasites'. : Larry Hardiman

Panic now...avoid the rush.

Thanks goldminer. It has often been said that life is a journey rather than a destination. We all need to remain open to new ideas and act upon them if they make good sense. The purpose of this thread is to present some new ways to free ourselves from the situations we are in.

As I see it, there are two major subjects to address here; first is to get our expenditures under control and second is to show how anyone can find opportunities to increase our income. If both of these subjects are not addressed side by side, the readers who only make more money and do not get their expenditures under control will not reap the rewards intended. I suppose some will be satisfied that they have more money to spend but that is not the complete answer. This book I mentioned, The Millionaire Next Door, is the best example of how people become wealthy and stay wealthy. I wrote about this back in March, 2004. It was called Think 10 Times and was silver musing # 6. You might want to read it if you haven’t. You can find my past silver musings in the editorial section. You see, I live somewhat like that millionaire next door.

t=9021

I should describe how I lead my life so that readers can see where I am true to my beliefs and when I am not. For I am only human and subject to temptations like everybody else.

A first example might help reveal one of my past blunders. I have owned hundreds of cars in the last 40 years but only owned one expensive one, a Ferrari. The first car I took a loan out for, big mistake. I have always been a car nut and this Ferrari was as irresistible as a blonde bombshell. She had the sexiest curvaceous lines and turned heads wherever I took her. But she was high maintenance and after bleeding me dry, she left me in the dirt after a few months. She had a lot of miles on her and had been driven hard. I could no longer afford her and passed her on to someone who could.

She was the biggest automotive headache ever and I learned my lesson for a lifetime. That was about 25 years ago and I still use the lesson when considering my next car. I have never owned a new car and don’t expect to in the future either. To put it bluntly, new cars are for the sheeple. I have no monthly payments and low insurance. Why pay for collision insurance when the wreck can be sold for parts in excess of what I paid for it in the first place ?

In looking back upon blunders, we should stand back and look at the whole picture, the overview, in order to derive some understanding of what actually happened. With this mental picture we can encapsulate this past transaction and put it in our mental files as a lesson of what to do in the future when the next siren beckons us toward the jagged shoals of financial ruin.

And now I have three Jaguar XJ6 cars. Crazy again ? Not really, The first I paid $1000 for and it is a great family car. The second and third I paid $900 total price, delivered to my door. One is a nice car and only needs a muffler. The other is best described as a parts car; it has a nice muffler system. I will be cannibalizing it and expect that it’s parts will eventually pay for all three cars. So for nothing more than my efforts, I will have two good Jaguars. To me, this is just a hobby and I am playing around. But note that I have put myself in a position that I can’t lose money, just some of my time. I always have several projects in the works and can go to them as time permits. If we get this 30 to 35 percent of dollar devaluation in the next year or so as some financial writers have been predicting, I expect that prices will also go up and my Jaguars will do okay. Besides, I will be getting rid of the parts as soon as possible so that I have no money tied up in the remaining two Jaguars. I will probably sell one and put the money to work. One is gold and the other one is silver and the junker is green. Karmic humor ?

If you want a hobby, why not make it a profitable one ?

There have been many unexpected pleasurable side benefits to this bartering and horse trading lifestyle. So be open to some nice surprises as you follow this path. Activity begets more activity, just keep your eyes open. I recently heard of one diesel Volkswagen and by the time I was through listening to the seller, I had three VW diesels. They came about by listening and talking.

Another rule is that you should always ask a seller if he knows of any similar items for sale that either he has or knows about. I offer a finder’s fee and therefore have motivated eyes and ears out there working for me. This may seem insignificant to some but I can assure you, it is not. You will have opened the doors of what others know of and multiplied your opportunities. Many of my deals come from someone who told me about someone else who had what I was looking for. I call it networking and collect the phone numbers of people who may help me in the future.

I have a three volume set of “The Forbes Scrapbook Of Thoughts On The Business Of Life”. It is an enormous compilation of quotes form the finest minds throughout history. Worth its weight in silver (for now). But the point is that life should be treated as a business; every transaction should be first weighed and considered for its value.

Best wishes,

agnut

Thanks lhslancers, I will try to keep up with all the posters’ responses. There is so much to say and it is important to convey it in a manner that anyone can understand. This isn’t rocket science and requires only simple math and common sense. But I have heard it said that there is nothing common about common sense. Just look around and watch how others transact their lives. What an eye opener, huh ?

You are no slouch with 9,750 posts and I would like to hear your wisdom as you are obviously in the know about dealings.

Best wishes,

agnut

Good one fasTTcar. I have two freezers in the garage packed with bargains. We even freeze bread when it is on sale. We buy meats in 10 pound packages and break them down to meal size amounts. Actually meals for six since there are three of us here and so that we have leftovers the next day. That way it cuts down on the prep time and cooking. We crock pot a lot and have meals for the next days. A roast can later be made into beef and egg burritos or whatever. Our cost per large serving is usually under a dollar and we eat very well. My older son has gained over 25 pounds since he came to live with me a year ago. He needed to fill out; he is 6’4” and towers over me.

I have a couple next door; wonderful people. We take over spumoni ice cream, which we store when on half price sales, to the wife and she in return sends over trays of gourmet food. What a great cook ! My most delicious barter.

By the way, this wife couldn’t find spumoni ice cream and it is her favorite. You should have seen her eyes light up when I brought over the first half gallon. Since then, we have kept her in spumoni and she keeps us in all kinds of exotic foods. I have done this in a business deal too and will never forget it.

It is another rule; find out what your seller really needs. It may not be money but something he can’t find.

For someone who decides to begin buying food in this manner, it would be interesting if they were to put away the money they saved in a box and see what they accumulated in a year. I bet they could go on vacation every year with it. But being the cheap bastard that I am, I would just go for a walk as I am in a great area to raise my sons. Life itself should be lived as if on a vacation. What you project is what you see.

Best wishes,

agnut

P.S. I need a good recipe for babyback ribs as it is our favorite and so far we have been unsuccessful in our attempts to imitate restaurant taste. We like to pig out. If you have one, please, please send it. Do I sound too desperate ? Good ! Because I am.

Thanks grape jelly, I have been wanting to do this for a long time. Hopefully this thread will develop into something that can benefit us all. The American population throws their money around like it was confetti (hey, I just discovered a new use for dollars when they become worthless ! What’s that you say ? They are already selling shredded dollars in bags ? Darn, another good idea whose time has come and gone). I can’t believe all the complaining about inflation and so little being done to counter it. That’s part of what this thread will address.

You can already see the responses; I must have hit a nerve. I think it was Thoreau who said, “There are as many solutions to a problem as there are lines radiating from a point”. If the FED wants to print the dollar into oblivion, we can devise various ways to defend ourselves from the ensuing inflationary ravages. That was the purpose of the GIM website in the first place. I am just focusing on how we can defend ourselves in our day to day living while the precious metals do their thing.

Best wishes and welcome here on the GIM forum,

agnut

Good point lhslancers. You must give the devil his due (or is that due-due ?). Saving money when purchasing necessities is one thing and no taxes are due here but when making deals, keep your nose clean unless you want to risk a financial strip search.

Depends upon how far you want to go with it. A garage sale you hold could be construed as a money making endeavor but the items you are selling can be seen as a loss since they are being sold for less than you paid for them. Or did you ? And will IRS agents come to your garage sale to watch over receipts ? That’s up to you and how much they scare you.

In many states, selling over 5 cars per year can be seen as car dealing and they may want you to get a dealer’s license with all the attendant expenses. But what of buying a couple a year and fixing them up and selling them ? And how many people in your household times two cars per year ? Something to think about. It is your call; I won’t give advice on tax matters.

Best wishes,

agnut

Hi again fasTTcar. I have a copy of The Millionaire Mind but haven’t read it all yet. Something new to do.

I have never spent over $200 for a suit or $100 for shoes. My kid sister bought me a complete outfit at her local thrift store. It is the most fancy duds I own as moths aerated my only suit. Well, it was 25 years old and had seen better days. Wonder if there is any antique value.

When I go shopping, other car owners worry about my putting dents in their cars rather than the other way around. They probably look at my cheap econo box and wonder how I can afford to eat. They should be looking at their late gas hog and wondering how they can afford to eat. My only problem is that these Jaguars I have exude an image of money and I don’t use them when shopping. They are just for long hauls. And if I don’t use them enough, they are history. Besides with what I see coming, it is best to have a low profile, even if you live in an upscale neighborhood. Pride of ownership also deflates in a deflation.

Best wishes,

agnut

hi, what i guess i am trying to say, is say i have a house full of stuff and want to liquidate it. if i sold it all on e-bay would there be IRS consequences. all this stuff is stuff i have bought over the years and have no proof of cost.

Very funny Agnut. I have a fancy car that I do not take with me when I go buying either for the same reason. I take the kid hauler or park around the corner. I was not looking for something like that but ended up with it after looking to trade a couple cars I had. It was less than 5% over the cost of the Jetta's I was looking at (They were demonstrators, and as you know, I think new car smell in the most expensive perfume in the world). It was a 3 year old, off lease deal that they had to move and I ended up with it for less than 1/2 the price of new. Had it for three years and it had depreciated about 10%.

As far as ribs, that is a thread to itself. But let me offer you a version that is dead easy, but blasphemy to some. It is probably the one I use most, however, because it never fails.

Again, to the purists, this is wrong and I still enjoy smoked and slow Q'd ribs, but try this. Quick, easy and tasty.

Get 3 large bottles of 7up and bring them to a boil in a large pot. Drop in your ribs and boil for about 45 minutes. Keep fishing around after about 1/2 hour to see how they are doing. When they are about to fall off the bone, take them out and pat them dry. You can keep them like that in the fridge for a day or two if you are doing it well ahead of time. Put on a spice rub if you prefer while the BBQ is heating up. Throw the ribs on a medium/high grill and coat the ribs with sauce (another full thread topic). Flip a couple times and keep coating on the sauce. All you are trying to do is heat them up and sear in the sauce. When the sauce gets thicker and sticky and you have a few nice grill marks, you are done.

Roll up your sleeves and eat with one or more cold beers. Pig Heaven.

__________________

I have to thank you Skyvike for getting this thread started. I have been kind of stuck on several unfinished silver musings and this thread is like a breath of fresh air.

Also thanks for making it a sticky; it may help in eventually making it into an area of its own. Over at the Timebomb2000 forum, there are many helpful threads about all kinds of good ideas and bargains to be had. No reason that we can’t share the same with each other here. I’ve already asked for a babyback rib recipe.

Best wishes,

agnut

I'd go for a section of it's own. Agnut, your generosity really is spectacular.
I'm planning on reading this thread avidly. Thank you.

Apparently, there's a voice in my head after I buy something that says,
"hey, you bought it, it can't be worth that much." :eek:

Yikes, it's like some kind of boogeyman.

__________________


"Adequate capital eliminates the need for an unachievable specificity in regulatory fine-tuning."
Greenspan

Thanks for the great advice RiverRat. I was hoping that you would come aboard soon. I need all the help I can get and by our private communications, I can tell that you are way ahead of me. Guys like you are the taxman and retailer’s worst nightmare. Self reliance just isn’t taught anywhere but in the school of hard knocks.

Maybe now readers will see that I am not blowing smoke (or is that smoking blow ?). Resourceful people like you are rare; and therefore there is all kinds of room for new members. Most of the population will never catch on. Just look at how few are aware of the precious metals and their potential. Hope Silver Sammy doesn’t chime in here in view of the recent PM price drop. I guess the lesson here is that you cannot run happily if you are looking only at the inches ahead while ignoring the horizon. He has to be putting us all on, doesn’t he ?

Best wishes,

Agnut

Hi nderror and welcome to the GIM forum. I see no reason that you would have any problems in selling your house stuff. You paid more for it in the past and now you want to sell it at a loss; maybe the IRS should be giving you some tax relief instead. Yeah, like that’s going to happen.

The IRS is looking for people who make it a serious business to sell things on Ebay. If I were selling what you say you have and the IRS came by, I would probably get into a Mogambo Guru rage, screaming and frothing at the mouth (and a few other things I won‘t go into). I’m not easily outraged but the IRS is high on my list of things that need serious change in this country. Politicians are also right in there too so don’t get me started. Have to change gears as I can hear my ears ringing from the blood pressure.

In this thread we need to stay focused on the purpose. I understand your legitimate question and it is on topic. As I have said, I should avoid giving tax advice so I don’t end up with something sensitive in a vise.

When anyone makes deals, it is their own decision of whether or not to declare a tax liability. And let your conscience be your guide but remember that the other side doesn’t have one.

And when you buy items for resale, get a receipt for your records.

Best wishes,

Agnut

Hi again Skyvike, I agree about this not being made into a topic now. Maybe someday; we will have to give it some time to see how it grows and continues.

Changing one’s mindset is one of the hardest tasks for us humans. I hope that the examples and stories here will show that we don’t have to be corralled like sheep for the slaughter. Readers here have already made the enormous leap from the fiat paper world into the world of honest money and what I am offering is another leap to further financial freedom. Maybe this realization of what you readers have already done will be easier since it is not the first time you have taken the leap. Ask yourself how it felt the first time when you came to understand what real money is as opposed to unbacked fiat paper. You are already on the path but it continues.

As RiverRat said :


“You got to think extreme to break yourself of nasty status quo habits TPTB want you to engage in...become proactive and quit trying to run with the flow...damn the flow....I want to own the flow and make money selling it to somebody else.

Look around you...do you want to live a life reacting to pressure and problems or become the meanest SOB in the valley and let everybody else worry about what you'll do next ?

The choice is yours...life is short...it's time to stop living like a cornered rat on slave labor wages.

Attitude folks...the final frontier...TPTB have a death grip on it.
Chisel yourself off a small piece and try it on for size...

Turn off the damn TV and THINK !!”


I couldn’t have said it better myself. It is geniuses like him that inspire ordinary folks to change their way of thinking for the better. It is said that we are often our own worst enemy. Constantly complaining about our sorry state is a dead end, a kind of disgust with oneself. We have to get up, go to the window, and yell out, “I’m mad as Hell and I’m not going to take it anymore.” (Credit given to the great movie “Network”.) Just doing this in your mind is best unless you are the Mogambo Guru who, if he is reading this, is at his window screaming at the top of his lungs. Lordy, I wish he was my neighbor. I love loonies.

Best wishes,

agnut


The Road Not Taken

Robert Frost

Two roads diverged in a yellow wood,
And sorry I could not travel both
And be one traveller, long I stood
And looked down one as far as I could
To where it bent in the undergrowth;

Then took the other, as just as fair,
And having perhaps the better claim,
Because it was grassy and wanted wear;
Though as for that the passing there
Had worn them really about the same,

And both that morning equally lay
In leaves no step had trodden black.
Oh, I kept the first for another day!
Yet knowing how way leads on to way,
I doubted if I should ever come back.

I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I--
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference

Hi RealJack, only time will tell how popular and enduring this thread is but I see it as vital to our dealing in this crazy world.

I too have this little voice in my head that tells me when I may be making a serious mistake. I listen to it now because I have come to realize that it is smarter than me !

The best way to have it not go off is to make intelligent decisions. That is what we are trying to do here; show people that there are better ways to deal with life. And to silence that little voice that is telling us that things could be done so much better.

One of my favorite quotes is “There is no fool like an old fool”. It says to me that if a person has gone through his life and learned nothing, there is nobody more foolish. My father used to say that the difference between ignorant and stupid was that ignorant just didn’t know yet but I hold no hope out for stupid. Once readers learn of the possibilities presented here, they will have to decide whether to act or not. But at least they cannot claim to be ignorant any more.

Best wishes,

Agnut

Agnut,

Thanks for "Volunteering" to do this thread. I have lots to learn in this area, so I will be reading it regulary. I do not have much to offer in this area so I will be a lurker rather than a poster. But I wanted to let you know that I appreciate your doing this.

Just so you know, I come from the mindset that says "Pay what they ask". I hate dickering. I hate buying cars, for instance, because I just want to pay a price (and hope that it is a fair price). I don't want to go through the hassle of "negotiating" a price. This is a major weakness I have. I know I need to change this, and I am working on it. I hope that this thread will be helpful in that regard.

So thanks for doing this . . . . . . it has been quite useful already.

I appreciate your input sober. I have been thinking about your post for hours.

You might want to ask yourself whether you prefer to continue paying what sellers ask and giving away your hard earned dollars or to learn the art of horse trading and bartering and keeping those dollars for yourself. It can easily amount to thousands of dollars per year. And if you were to continue paying what sellers ask for the rest of your life, you would have given away a considerable part of your lifetime wealth. Maybe a fortune if that saved money had been invested in something like precious metals. That is just one way of looking at it. What seems trivial on a daily basis can mount up into a fortune on a lifetime scale.

Haggling can be a lot of fun, especially with a seller with a sense of humor and common sense. The guy selling the two Jaguars, one nice and one parts car, wanted $1000 and was rock firm on the price. He said that a wrecking yard would pay that if he delivered them. This wrecking yard is about two hours away. I told the seller that it would cost a lot in gas for him to deliver them, not to mention the time involved. I offered him $900 and he accepted. I saved $100 by just listening to him and explaining why my offer was better than the wrecking yard’s. I must admit that I came prepared to pay $1000 since I considered them a good bargain. The $100 saved was just icing on the cake. The parts off one car will more than pay for both cars.

When you shop in a supermarket, do you look for the sale items ? Do you use coupons ? I always do as this is money I get to keep, after tax money which is about 30 percent more valuable than gross earnings. Do you have a freezer and stockpile bargains when available ? These all are a simple way to start a “minding the pennies and the dollars will take care of themselves” way of thinking.

Do you buy everything from stores and pay retail ? Have you been to local garage sales or estate sales ? My son got a winter coat for $2 that was like new and probably cost $100 in the store, plus $8 sales tax. In other words, he got it for one fourth of the sales tax alone ! Wouldn’t you like to save this kind of money yourself ? All you have to do is go to some garage sales and look around. It is one of the most fun things my son and I do. We get the Saturday paper and map out the garage sales so that we don’t waste time. It is important to get there early as many of the best deals are gone in a few hours. Why are the best deals gone ? There are others looking for bargains too. I bought two matching couches for $25 each and they look great in my living room. They would cost about $600 plus $48 sales tax in a furniture store. I paid just over what the sales tax would have been.

Map out the better neighborhoods near where you live and “shop” there; the merchandise is usually better quality and in better condition. These people make good money but give little thought to what they are doing. I get rid of a couch when it wears out because I have gotten my value out of it long ago and reupholstering it is a waste of money. Then I am in the market for the next $25 couch.

Reminds me of a joke.

Why did God invent gentiles ?

Answer : Well, somebody had to pay retail.

The Jews are known as shrewd businessmen but when they buy new, even if at wholesale prices, a $600 plus $48 tax couch set might be $350 plus $28 tax wholesale. They are still paying 7.5 times what I have paid used. And I still have $328 in my pocket. I have furnished my house with such used items and it has been a most satisfying deal.

Some things we need to buy new when the reliability of a used item could be in question. A big screen TV was my one big expense. I suppose I could rationalize and say that all the money I saved by buying other items used would more than offset the extra cost of getting this new TV but that is not the point. The point is that I had a specific brand and model in mind (Samsung 50” DLP) and it would be rare to find it used for much less. So I bided my time and waited for a good sale and swooped on it. There are few things that are wise to buy new and big screen TVs are one of them. It is my one big extravagance and I cannot put a dollar value on it as I am a movie nut and have over a thousand movies. Many are on videotape and cost me as little as 25 cents. We can enjoy a movie with popcorn for pennies and when no longer wanted, they can be sold for a dollar or two at my own garage sale.

You know the difference between new and used ? After you pay for a new item, it is now considered used. So as soon as you drive a new car off the dealer lot, it becomes used and loses many thousands of dollars in resale value. I have also found many new items at garage sales and for cheap prices too.

One of my daughters makes good money but is always living on the edge. She has a late Volvo that she pays $600 per month. I told her to sell it and find a good used car. She replied that she needed a reliable car. I told her that I have a $1400 Toyota Camry wagon that has never let me down. I have been giving her financial advice for a long time and she won’t budge. So her life on the edge will continue until she changes.

Your life will also continue the way it has unless you put into action what you have already learned here and will continue to learn as we add to this thread. It is your choice but the evidence is overwhelming that you have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

You can begin by watching every expenditure and weighing its value. And looking for sales in the supermarkets and stocking up. When you feel confident with that, move on to garage sales and other bargains. Make a list of what you need and one of what you want. Decide where and how to most effectively use your money.

I can guarantee you that after going to a few garage sales that your eyes will be opened to the possibilities. I have a lot of fun with them, sometimes getting everyone laughing. I even did that at an estate sale and returned to pick up the second load of items I wanted and they wouldn’t take any more money from me.

Seek and ye shall find.

Best wishes and keep asking questions; that is what this thread is here for.

agnut